Clinton going positive, will her & Obama's supporters do the same?

As an Obama supporter, while i still have major problems with some aspects of Hillary Clinton's campaign, i have to give her credit for taking a turn into the positive with her recent campaign ads and some of her statements. she is NOT denigrating Obama or hurting the Democratic party's chances in the Fall.
Clinton's recent response to McBush's attacks on Obama were a wonderful and welcome sign of a candidate who MAY be ready to start healing our party and the divisions this campaign has exposed.

Likewise, Obama has stopped aiming fire at Clinton, and has even given her credit as he attacks McCain. another welcome development.

Two questions remain:
1) will Clinton's supporters do likewise, or, as we've seen WAY too much of here, will they continue to make themselves indistinguishable from ReThugs with their hateful, bitter, and patently dishonest attacks on Obama?

2) likewise, will the Obama supporters continue their ridiculous line of arguement that sexism hasn't played a significant role in this campaign?

if either group continues with their denial of reality, we are still in trouble. so let's hope supporters of BOTH candidates stop the ridiculous denial and infighting and get together to beat John McBush!



Display:


Sea Change (2.00 / 1)

I just wrote in another comment, today, that I felt the tone of the primary campaign recently has vastly improved.  I had been really against the idea of Hillary as his running mate, assuming he is the nominee, and after watching and listening this week, I've completely turned around on that question and would support either as the other's running mate assuming the campaign does not again degenerate into rabidity.  They seem to be functioning, both, as Democrats first.


by mady on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:11:19 PM EST

the turning point (2.00 / 2)

This is the point where pro-Clinton voters make the choice to either stay pro-Clinton and support her as she supports the Democratic nominee and the party, or turn full on into anti-Obama.

Don't be surprised to see the worst examples embrace their anti-Obama identity and completely forget about Clinton. The irony will be astounding - they use a female political candidate to cover up their own anti-Obama issues. They hide behind the valid issues of sexism and UHC to damage Obama, and when Clinton fails to continue to fight against him, they'll completely forget she existed. They'll switch to Rove/Bush/McCain talking points instead. Its already begun to happen.

I agree that sexism and gender issues are still valid concerns, but my problem has always been hiding behind those issues to bash Obama.


can't rec, can't rate, par for the course
by upstate girl on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:14:15 PM EST

Re: the turning point (2.00 / 1)

I hope you're completely wrong about that, UG.
With the exception of a few hard core BO haters, I think we'll all be at the same march to defeat the neocon cocksuckers soon.

Oh my, excuse my potty mouth.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the turning point (2.00 / 1)

Pottymouth fully justified contextually.


by mady on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:21:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the turning point (2.00 / 2)

I wish I was completely wrong, but its already started to happen. There were two anti-Obama diaries yesterday defending the Bush/McCain flareup over Bush's comments in Israel. Neither were removed.

Outside MyDD, outside the internet, the vast majority of pro-Clinton people will stay pro-Clinton and therefore pro-Democratic party. That was bound to happen. But those that only used Clinton as an excuse to hate Obama will need to jump to the next available group that gives them cover, and that's the Republicans. The only question is at what point the admins are going to let the hammer drop and realign the site as a pro-Democratic party one.


can't rec, can't rate, par for the course
by upstate girl on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton going positive (none / 0)


2) likewise, will the Obama supporters continue their ridiculous line of arguement that sexism hasn't played a significant role in this campaign?

There is no likewise and this shouldn't be put up as some sort of quid pro quo for Hillary supporters to support the winner of this process and the democratic nominee.  My opposition to Hillary from the very start was simple - she voted for the War.  Period.  My opposition to Edwards was the same.  I don't believe or agree with the premise that either gender or race has played a significant role in this campaign.  

In fact, my excitement about the campaign, what all of us can take great pride and hope in, the reason why so many of us were so overwhelmed by the sight of that first one-on-one debate was that we as a Democratic Party but aside issues of Race and Gender and fell behind and worked our asses off for two exceptional candidates.  Period.


by Piuma on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:28:19 PM EST

deep denial, but fair to both sides... (none / 0)

"I don't believe or agree with the premise that either gender or race has played a significant role in this campaign. "

i guess we've been watching different campaigns. i think it's obvious that both race and gender played huge roles. (and race will play a huge role in the GE.)
but kudos for evenhanded treatment.

but i think you are very wrong about the 'quid pro quo." if Obama doesn't acknowledge the sexism clinton faced, he'll have a hard time getting her supporters to come over. but i think he will acknowledge it.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: deep denial, but fair to both sides... (2.00 / 1)

I guess it depends on your definition of significant.  One of the most encouraging numbers I've seen recently was that in West Virginia even when getting trounced, Obama received more votes than John McCain.  Turnout has been tremendous and the forces who wish to see our Presidential choices not decided on Race or Gender have overwhelmed the forces who do.

When race was pushed forward as an issue, Obama reacted forcefully and eloquently against it.  That speech played a huge role in securing him the nomination.  Among the many faults and misplays of Clinton's campaign, perhaps her decision not to address the role of Gender bias in our society should be added to the list.


by Piuma on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's & Obama's supporters (none / 0)

Working together.

I'm onboard, but strangely Obama supporters, as of late have been more reticent than Hillary supporters are.
It is foolish to assume that Obama is already the nominee, and even more foolish to disregard Hillary's apparent offering of olive branches, and overtures of team support.
I am not going to attack Hillary anymore, unless she attacks Obama, and I believe Hillary knows that in light of the 5 remaining primaries it is not necessary for her attack Obama anymore(in all honesty it never was).
Hillary was the biggest cheerleader for the "Unity Ticket", and if she is willing to take the running mate role, then I am completely willing to support her.
Hillary is not the enemy, and I am ready to start reconciliation with Hillary and Hillary supporters, even if Hillary manages to legitimately obtain the nomination in the last month, provided that she continuing with her current tact of not attacking Obama (and at this point I would probably switch to Clinton if Obama started to attack her).
We need to listen to what the Democratic candidates are saying, I am sure they are working out a mutually beneficial plan to win, and we should fully support it.


My thoughts on McCain: I have no desire to let that idiot fulfill his desire to "Bomb Iran"
by Otaku Saru on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:39:05 PM EST

Re: Clinton going positive (2.00 / 1)

" likewise, will the Obama supporters continue their ridiculous line of arguement that sexism hasn't played a significant role in this campaign?"

No. I'm all for being positive and I really see no need to tear down Clinton, but our reason for denying this argument is simply that we don't agree with it, not because we don't want it to be true.

Sexism exists, yes. And it probably influenced votes. There were also many individuals in the media who made sexist comments.

But that isn't why she lost. It's not even one of the reasons why she lost. She came in with every advantage, including her gender. Woman across the country were energized by the idea that a woman was running for president. And while I personally wouldn't cast a vote along gender or racial lines, I think someone has every right to do so.

But I wholeheartedly believe that whatever role sexism on the part of men played in these primaries was completely overcome with the votes and support of women who wanted to see a woman president.

Clinton lost because Obama ran a brilliant campaign and in the end, appealed to more voters. That is why we reject the assertion. I am more than willing to make up with Clinton supporters, but I will not admit something I don't believe to be true.


democracy!
by BlueGAinDC on Sat May 17, 2008 at 03:47:57 PM EST

that's NOT what i said (none / 0)

"Sexism exists, yes. And it probably influenced votes. There were also many individuals in the media who made sexist comments.

But that isn't why she lost."

i did not say that's why she lost.

i said: that sexism "had played a significant role."

you said: "Sexism exists, yes. And it probably influenced votes."

so we agree. on the "why she lost" line, you are arguing with a straw man.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's NOT what i said (none / 0)

Most Obama supporters have already admitted as much. It seemed to me you used "significant" to mean that it was an influential factor in determining the nominee.

There are diaries up all over the place lately saying that misogyny is what caused her loss. That's what Obama supporters disagree with. No one is saying sexism doesn't exist and that sexism did not influence anyone's vote.


democracy!
by BlueGAinDC on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's NOT what i said (none / 0)

point well taken.

but there are also alot of diaries that say "sexism was a problem" and alot of responses that "no, it didn't." or that said "it didn't cost her the nomination" when the diaries didn't say that at all.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: that's NOT what i said (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, people are still reacting and over-reacting, on both sides.

It's going to take a little while to calm down.

Hopefully, we can start having a little patience with each other, and see that some people, and hopefully, most people, on each side are willing to treat each other with respect.  

And, given that, we can start to ignore the people who respond with kneejerk criticism.


by Kiku on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:19:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton going positive, (2.00 / 1)

All it would take for backers of either candidate to see the light is to be locked in a room for 24 hours listening to alternating diatribes by Rush Limbaugh attacking our candidates.  


by Rick in Eugene on Sat May 17, 2008 at 04:06:33 PM EST

Clinton had no choice (1.00 / 2)

.. but to go negative in response to the increases in incidents and virility of attacks on her and her character, beginning in earnest last summer. I have found it quite intriguing to follow attacktimeline.com that catalogues the number and the timing of Obama's negative comments, not on Clinton's positions on the issues, but on Clinton herself - I went to find a similar document from the Obama campaign and found none
my recollection of the matter is that the SEIU's insistence on sending out false and misleading flyers to OHio voters on Clinton's Health Care plan and position re NAFTA, even though their content had been shown to be distortions of fact (after having been called out after a similar tactic in Connecticut and elsewhere) - was the straw that broke the camel's back - leaving Clinton with no alternative.
Finally, I continue to be amazed at how many so-called "attacks" on Obama get confused with a process called investigative reporting - no one made up Jeremiah Wright, no one made up Tony Rezko, no one made up 130 "present" votes in the Illinois senate, no one made up the fact that Obama has not fulfilled his responsibilities as a member of a Senate committee because he was too busy running for president.
Sorry kids, I do not see the strength of character and commitment to a cause other than his own that everyone finds so attractive about Barack Obama. I wish Obama supporters had done their homework a little better before imbibing the Kool-Aid.
by pan230oh on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:13:11 PM EST

obviously this Clinton supporter is staying nasty (none / 0)

troll rated for this bullshit comment:

"I wish Obama supporters had done their homework a little better before imbibing the Kool-Aid. "

no one has taken any koolaid. that's bullshit. anyone who calls others "koolaid drinkers" "Obamabots" or "Hillbots" has admitted they can't win on the strength of their arguements.

thanks to other Clinton supporters in this thread for not going down this hideous destructive road with pan230oh.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rec'ed (2.00 / 1)

While it has sometimes been amusing to watch the die-hards battle it out in thread after thread, it's also getting a bit tiring.  I think most of us on both sides are much less hostile, but the minorities are more vocal.

It's been fairly clear to me that the tone of the campaign improved shortly after NC-IN.  Let's hope the internet supporters follow their candidates' lead.

peace,
lilnev


by lilnev on Sat May 17, 2008 at 06:33:46 PM EST

This should have happened in March (2.00 / 1)


"we have the most radical president we have ever had, leading our country right now, and he is completely uneducable." - Seymour Hersh
by Lefty Coaster on Sat May 17, 2008 at 07:22:14 PM EST


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